INT: So we already talked about the move to California and the 13 weeks with Don Rickles. And what I was gonna say is I didn't realize you'd actually done a multi-camera sitcom episode of GET SMART.

DC: I did one, yeah. I, well Don Adams is a good friend of THE TONIGHT SHOW [THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JOHNNY CARSON], and he was on quite a few times, and you know. I didn't know I wanted to get into film necessarily. [INT: Oh, so this was, was this single camera or multi-camera?] Single camera. And here I am, and I wasn't ready for it quite frankly. The opportunity came up and I jumped at it, and I'm, I hadn't been to film school. I hadn't studied technique. I, you know, I… But one thing Don, actually, and I wasn't a, just, I wasn't the only Director. Don liked once in awhile to just take the camera and just to do something. Put it in another place. But I wasn't prepared, and I really felt that I was, should have not done that at that time without some sort of training in technique or film and that type of thing. [INT: It certainly sounds like everything else along your career, you were ready, and you felt confident, and were prepared, so I'm hearing you.] That's the one thing I wasn’t… [INT: I’m hearing your process.] Yeah. It, all of a sudden I realized when I walked in and… I'd been on film sets before, quite a few, filming other Actors and… But this was kind of overwhelming, and got through it. And got a nice letter from Producer saying, you know, so forth. But anyway...

INT: Next up, I don't know if this is next up or not, but I'll ask you about YOUR ALL-AMERICAN COLLEGE SHOW hosted by...

DC: Yeah. That was great because I got to work with Arthur Godfrey again. And got that job through a, I did finally get a Agent, Manager type, which found that job for me, because, you know, freelancing is okay, but if you're not used to it, you know, you kind of have to wait until the opportunities come. And I had done some commercials in between, and I didn't particularly care for that too much, but I did a few. But yeah, this was a show, another talent show. So when I went in, you know, he was very pleased to see me, so we got along great. And it was a talent show. We had a lot of talent just lots of big names. [INT: And even though you said you stayed behind the scenes so much in THE TONIGHT SHOW, I'll bet that a lot of this talent knew who you were and knew what you had done.] Yes. [INT: And they were probably pretty comfortable with it.] I would think so. Well it is a college show, because some of the performers were college students. But we also had the pros, you know, like a Rich Little would come on and do a standup, and just give it some… People like Captain Tennille and her... Yeah. Anyway, it was a good show, and it ran out after awhile and… But it was, I liked doing it.

INT: And you mentioned commercials.

DC: Yeah. Very quickly, I did some commercials. Actually, the fellow that I told you about the Paris film shoot, he is a professional… Does 35, also. He called me after that and he said, "I need someone to direct this show for this shoe commercial. I'm gonna shoot it. Would you like to direct it?" And I said, "Of course." It's for a shoe commercial, so he says, "We're gonna go see the shoe." "What?" They had this fantastic shoe built and it was padded for your foot; how soft it is. And to demonstrate how soft it is, they got Rocky Graziano, the fighter, and he was gonna punch it. And we put him inside, Rocky, and he's... “If Rocky Graziano can't punch his way out of that shoe...” you know. It was simple shoot. But we got the camera up, and we showed him punching that shoe. Isn't it funny? [INT: Yeah.] That was one of 'em. And there was one for diet beer. Have you ever heard of diet beer? We hired… Who's the Actor? Anyway. [INT: The Iceman.] Iceman. You'd know the name, maybe, to plug this beer. So we, you know, it's, we went to someone's home. They had set up a house to make it more friendly, and he's in the kitchen or something with this beer. Farley Granger. Good-looking guy, movie Actor. And he's plugging the beer, you know. That was easy. It's the little pickup shot of the beer. The time it took to shoot that glass of beer and pouring it, I could have done a MERV GRIFFIN SHOW, you know. We went on and on and pouring more beer. And I said, "Yeah, okay. You know, take 10." Bubbles had to be perfect, you know, it was... I got the people from New York there watching it en masse, so I said, "Fine." That was my commercial. [LAUGH] [INT: Yeah.]

INT: Well, so here comes an opportunity to direct a talk show. Is this next now? THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW, how does this come about? Or is there something else in between that should be talked about? Or how does THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW opportunity come your way?

DC: I get a call from… Merv's [Merv Griffin] show had just come out from the East Coast, and CBS had hired him to go opposite Johnny Carson [THE TONIGHT SHOW STARRING JOHNNY CARSON] at 11:30. Now the Producer of that show happened to be one of Johnny's last head Writers, Walter Kempley, so I know how that came about. And they called me and I said, I'm sitting in this Producer's office, Ralph Andrews, and he said, I said to him, "I just got a call from THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW. They want me to come over and maybe relieve this guy that's doing it." I, the guy said, "Well what'd you say?" And I said, "I didn't want to do it." He said, "Are you out of your mind? You're not working. We haven't developed anything yet." He says, "It's a paycheck." "Oh, well yeah." The guy set me right real quick, and I called back and I said, "Sure, I'll come over." And we met Merv, and I guess I passed the course. I think Merv loved to have Johnny Carson's brother there. But first I called Johnny and I said, "John, you won't believe I just got a call from the Griffin people to direct your show--his show, opposite you. And how does that affect you or how, what do you think?" He said, "Hey, it's work," 'cause he's been out of work many times in the early days. "It's work." And I said, "You know something, you're absolutely right." So I called, made the deal, and all of a sudden I'm over at TV City [CBS Studios in LA] and--excuse me--away we go.

INT: Ok. So you got the blessing from Johnny [to work on THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW] who said, "Hey, it's work."

DC: It's work, absolutely. He had early career problems getting work, and so he understood it perfectly. So I show up at the Griffin offices, and meet everybody, and they were, had small offices just a block away from CBS. I remember the first time we went to production. Seems like Merv [Merv Griffin] was watching me very closely, I could tell. You know, he's very interested in production and he, I would get a shot I know on the crane, and he'd walk over to kind of see what I'm doing, you know. And I said, "Oh, teacher's watching." But he was very kind. There never was a problem. And so I remember we'd start at the... I remember the very first show. I mean it was very clear. And directing at CBS was a lot different at that time because, and fortunately it didn't last too long. They had the system from the old days where the AD [Associate Director] had to preset the, call the standby, and the Director would cut it, which doesn't work for a talk show. And I finally, they loosened up on that and I finally, I said, "I'm just gonna not do that," and nobody stopped me. But that's what, that was the system. But that's great for a drama show where there are hundreds of pages, of course, yeah, but anyway. We got along fine. Gosh, Merv was a wonderful guy to work for. I mean he was so social. We had, he had rented a big beautiful home there in Beverly Hills, and I remember he had some wonderful parties with all kinds of celebrities, and he had a tennis court and that, tennis was really wonderful.

INT: And so the CBS method was the AD [Associate Director] preset shots? [DC: Yes.] And so it... Talk about that a little bit, and again how that just didn't work for you, and what you were used to doing. I think that's an important directing style, and that's great that you took the initiative to talk about. [DC: Well I mean...] So what did you encounter at CBS, the relationship with the Associate Director?

DC: Well I talked to the TD [Technical Director], and I said, "You know, this isn't gonna work. When I say one I want it now. Johnny's gonna do a take," or, you know, that kind of thing. But this was not--this is at CBS, so John--this was with Merv [Merv Griffin and THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW]. So it wasn't maybe quite that important, but after awhile I just, TD went along with it. I guess the system was kind of maybe changing slowly. And I'd say, "Take one, take two, take three--take one." And he'd just punch 'em, you know. Because doing a talk show you want it right now. You don't want to wait. Yeah. [INT: Good call.] But, so it worked all right. The only problem was Merv is different than Johnny. Merv kind of gets into everything. I mean he loves to produce. He never gave me a problem about directing. He was always very kind and complimentary. But I think within a second week they told me we're going to do a big special, one hour special, with Tony Bennett, Peggy Lee, full symphony orchestra. Merv, if he had an opportunity, was gonna produce another show. And I saw that all through the career with Merv. As soon as you had something going, he was so anxious, you know, he had JEOPARDY going all those years, and he had, WHEEL [WHEEL OF FORTUNE] hadn't started yet, but he loved to produce new shows, as I can go on and on about all that. But again, he was very easy to work with. But be prepared. Be ready for something that might happen tomorrow. And everybody rushing around. I think he liked a lot of that. Anyway, just one quick story from [THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW set], actually it's in a book that Merv wrote. Jack Paar talked to Merv, 'cause Merv, said, "Merv, you have to make your talk show exciting." He said, "I always tried to create a little tension, a feud with somebody or this or that." And Merv was kind of, took that too, to keep it interesting something should be kind of boiling maybe underneath, maybe. And Paar really believed that. That's where he got the audience to watch and listen. Anyway, so we got along pretty well.

DC: Gosh, we [THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW] were at CBS not too long. He [Merv Griffin] had some contractual problems, I guess, with CBS. We did a lot of good shows there, but we eventually moved on out of there. We went to the Hollywood Palace, which was owned by ABC at the time. [INT: So it was, so then this--] But we really did some good shows... [INT: The CBS show--] The CBS... [INT: --terminated, and then he...] Yeah. He emanated, and then had a problem contractually with CBS. I found out later they erased that whole Peggy Lee thing. [INT: He would always talk about--] Did he? [INT: --the two-inch tape that was... So many of the shows were lost, because they reused the two-inch, the tape.] It was kind of a tough breakup I guess because he wanted to get out of the contract. Or maybe it was vice versa, I don't know, but… And I do that. He, we wound up at the Hollywood Palace. And there it really was a neat place to be, because now we had a full theater, the balcony, more room. [INT: This was a syndicated show. Was this for...] Still syndicated. [INT: Multimedia, so--] Well, he found a new syndicator. He left CBS; I think it was Metromedia. [INT: Metromedia. I think you're right.] Yeah. They made a contract with Metromedia, and… So now we had our own offices. We had, it was an independent thing, company set up by Merv. And Merv was always very clever to have these things, offices and everything. He really was a very smart man when it came to business. Johnny [Johnny Carson] couldn't care less about business. Let somebody else do that. But he always... [INT: It was syndicated though, so it was, was it afternoon and evenings, different markets? How did that show, how was that show seen? How was it...] That show was syndicated by, I think that's where King World [King World Productions] came into being. They created this company, the King brothers, Michael and [COUGH]... Excuse me. They created King World [King World Productions] and they went out and sold these shows. But this was later, I think. After, further down the line. I'm not sure the time of that. But yes. [INT: But when he made, first made the move to the Hollywood Palace for Metromedia--] That was Metromedia, yeah. [INT: Nighttime or afternoon show?] Well, you mean when we taped it? [INT: No, when it aired.] Well I think it varied-- [INT: Okay. So it was...] --some cities. It might be in the afternoon in some cities, yeah. Yeah. It's whatever they could, time slot they could do. So... [INT: As far as you're concerned, it's, it was THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW. It what you--] No change really except now Hollywood Palace was nice because you had a little more room and you felt like it was a theater. And Merv eventually put offices upstairs, and so it was really, everything was right there. [INT: Was Mort Lindsey with him yet?] Oh, Mort, all the time, yeah. Mort was, stayed with Merv until it went off the air, yeah. [INT: Had he started with him at CBS?] With Mort? [INT: Yeah.] Yes. Yes. That's right.

DC: I'll tell a quick funny story. I don't know if we got enough time for these funny stories. [INT: Sure.] Merv [Merv Griffin] always likes to work close to the audience [of THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW], okay? So he wanted home base… I set home base where I thought it should be for the balcony too, line of sight, ta dah, dah, dah. I'll make this quick. Well he comes in and said, "I want to be close to the audience. I want to see their reaction." So he said, "I want… move it down here." And I said, "Well Merv, people in the audience aren't gonna see." "Well there are TV monitors up there." I said, "Yeah, but… Hey, okay boss. Bring that set down here." You know, so we do. It rolls; it's all chocked, so it won't slide. But they roll it down. All right. Opening show, opening night, balcony's full of people, whole big house and he introduces, he comes out and he does a little monologue I guess. He might have even sang, I don't know. Usually he did sing. He liked to sing. And I don't blame him. That's what he did. And, whereas Johnny [Johnny Carson] liked to do his comedy, standup. So here we go, opening night. He introduces Milton Berle, play him on, he comes out, Milton sits down and he starts acting funny. And we hear rustling up in the audience. "We can't see." "What?" And of course, Berle like, "They can't see. What's going on?" Berle gets up, tries to move the set himself. 'Course it won't move. Now Merv, being very, he can really take something like that. This is what Paar [Jack Paar] told him. This is a, gonna be funny. He knew it. So he gets up and he tries to move it. And he, finally, stagehands run out and they, well they finally move it up, and finally they get it… Berle's in control now of course. "Can you see up there?" "Oh yeah, yeah. It's good." They applaud and everything. It's a great segment. Yeah. And that's the way Merv was a lot of times. He could, he could… nothing would throw him. He would take, make something of it. Another time, in fact Kevin McCarthy, our AD [Associate Director] at the time, reminded me when I spoke to him the other day, one time, I remember this happening. Merv loved to have the band travel down. That's the old days, you know, from the Palladium [Hollywood Palladium]. So the band was on rollers, the entire band. Mort Lindsey at piano was all, that's a big piece, with microphones, everything. So we had Sammy Davis [Sammy Davis Jr.] on, I guess, yeah. And he hadn't sung yet, but he was out front with Merv. And he said, "Sammy's gonna sing. What are you gonna sing?" "Well I'm gonna sing this song." "Here he is ladies and gentlemen, Sammy Davis." Band strikes, the curtains open, just like the Paramount Theater in New York. Down comes the band. [LAUGH] It splits in half. Literally, here's Mort Lindsey with his piano, by himself, and the band is 10 feet behind. [LAUGH] I'm sorry. It's so... Now get this, Kevin reminded me, the thing hits Sammy, because it's just this platform. And he says, "It knocked Sammy down." I said, "You're kidding." He said, "No, I remember it." Another thing that Merv turned into a plus. It was funny. Sammy was funny. They kind of pushed it back together again. And it was a, couldn't, you couldn't rehearse something that funny. But that's the way it was. Merv could take any problem and turn it into a positive.

INT: Now that, those [THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW] shows were not live. They were...

DC: Those were tape, yeah. For that was part of the syndication. But it was fun. That was a lot for, from a directing standpoint you had more angles. You could do a piece over here. You could put a singer over here while you're doing something. You had more freedom. Yeah.

INT: What I also remember about my time with Merv [Merv Griffin on THE MERV GRIFFIN SHOW], which comes later, but I'll just see when he started this, very much like this, if he was having a very good interview going, even knowing there would have to be commercial breaks, he just kept talking and let the interview… When did that start and how did you handle that? And, I mean I kind of remember how...

DC: Well that's where, you know, AD [Associate Director] did most of the heavy editing because Merv was, usually ran long too. And AD is starting to scream, "You..." He knows. He's writing down how many minutes he's gotta cut. He's busy. But yeah, that would affected him a lot, and what was going on, ‘cause he knew he was gonna have to take so much out and fix it.